FFVIII: Overwritten

[edenbound]

Fandom: Final Fantasy VIII
Pairing: Squall/Xu
Warnings: Angst
Rating: G
Summary: Xu, sick with jealousy. For over_look.


It wasn't that Squall was a bad commander. That, in fact, was one of the things that really sickened Xu. Squall was a good commander, and he'd be a brilliant one if he worked on his people skills a little. She couldn't even blame his success on his popularity, because ninety percent of that had been gained because he was good at what he did, and not just because he looked good (though she allowed herself the comfort that he was good looking, so perhaps that had gained him a few more supporters).

There was a time that she had held that kind of position, commanded that amount of respect. She'd been second to Cid, and he'd been second only to Garden's sponsors. She'd been the one people followed with their eyes, the one people sidled up to during festivals to ask favours of. She caught those same people sidling up to Squall, nowadays.

It wasn't that she really wanted it for herself, either. It was just -- well, she deserved that much, surely. She'd been a SeeD when he was still struggling to lift his gunblade. She'd taught him. And then he'd been given the rank of commander, elevated above her, suddenly unquestionable, untouchable, given rights she'd never even considered having. He'd overridden her, overwritten her place in the whole story.

She'd curse him, hate him, work to destroy him, something, just on principle, if she could.

But the most galling thing about it all was that she didn't really want to. That, in the end, she loved him, too.

Comments

(frozen comment)

[perotine.livejournal.com]

Have you done any short stories, or even long stories? I ask because you're doing something that really isn't acceptable, and I think the format may be partially to blame. To give us three paragraphs about one character's convictions, and then to claim something so abrupt at the end without further explanation is poor technique. It makes the writer seem lazy. You can't simply state things that appear contrary and then assume the supposed profundity of that contradiction is going to satisfy the reader. I think if you spent more time on why everyone else loved him the ending would've made more sense. As it is, it conveys nothing. If the point of writing is to say something, what has been said? She's jealous, but not really? I think you're doing injustice to the characters and yourself by writing this way.

On a more fundamental level: vary your sentence structure and your constructs. The phrase, appositive/emphasis phrase, another appositive/emphasis phrase, end of sentence format is repetitive. Of sixteen sentences, four of them don't have commas. Make sure you take time to work over other basics (ending sentences with prepositions, run-ons, etc).

This isn't bad. I'm intrigued by your concept; it's something I hadn't considered. I never knew how old she was...did we ever find out? Regardless, I like this. I think it's worth exploring the various people (and there plenty of them) who were pushed aside for The Hero to take over. It's a staple of literature that The Hero will suddenly be Very Important, but nobody ever considers the people who used to be in charge. A lot of writers take the easy way out and kill them off. :)

(frozen comment)

[edenbound.livejournal.com]

Four novels (completed but not edited), quite a few short stories (completed, edited, one put in a magazine), won myself a place on a writer's course (not going there, but I won the place), got highest marks in two writing modules of my A Level. I'm not a completely inexperienced writer. :/ Not that I'm saying I'm wonderful and brilliant and the world should be kissing my feet, but, I'm not a complete novice, either.

I believe you were formerly celetinachan, no? And you've commented here before? And you already know you dislike my style, characterisation and whatever else it was -- ninety percent of what I write. I've taken your concrit on board, thank you, but I don't find the way you do it helpful to me. Last time I ended up not feeling able to write FFVI fanfic anymore, so I'd appreciate it if in future you didn't concrit me.

(frozen comment)

[perotine.livejournal.com]

A simple "yes" would have sufficed. I didn't ask for your credentials.

"And you already know you dislike my style, characterisation and whatever else it was -- ninety percent of what I write. " I don't remember saying anything negative about your characterization in this. Nor do I remember saying anything about it not being to my personal tastes.

The problem with your response is that it's entirely about you and your feelings. It shouldn't be. Say "thank you", or "yes, I realized that" or "no, I disagree". "You make me sad" is neither mature nor professional. If you haven't reached the stage where you're ready to accept criticism, you haven't reached the stage where you're ready to post your writing.

(frozen comment)

[edenbound.livejournal.com]

You asked if I'd written longer things before, I responded and expanded a little. That's generally the way I work, I'm sorry it seems to have annoyed you.

I didn't say that: I said that last time you did this, you didn't like my writing. Which makes me curious as to why you came back, though of course, you're fully entitled to go where you want on the internet. (And yes, I checked the celetinachan/perotine redirect to make sure I'm not being an idiot.)

I can take concrit, most of the time, but the kind of concrit you give set my teeth on edge last time and again this time. It's not helpful to me, and I'm simply respectfully asking you not to do it, because whenever I've got concrit from you, it hasn't helped and has indeed torn down my confidence. I said "thank you", and I mean it, I'll consider what you've said, but the way you go about it is not particularly helpful to me. In the end, I don't see the problem with being emotionally involved with my writing, at this stage. I'm not a professional writer, nor looking to become one right now.

(frozen comment)

[perotine.livejournal.com]

I'm sorry if it isn't helpful for you. That doesn't invalidate it. I'm not saying you shouldn't be emotionally involved; it's difficult to write anything and not very attached to it. However, that's not part of the critiquing process. You separate yourself from it and consider it accordingly.

Don't mention your credentials if you aren't actually interested in writing seriously. Either decide that you're doing this for fun and games or you intend to improve from it. You can't be both an amazingly gifted and brilliant writer who also happens to have their confidence "torn down" when somebody doesn't offer a comment without "Magnificent!" and "so beautiful!"

(frozen comment)

[edenbound.livejournal.com]

Part of the reason why I elected not to go to the writing course (you'll notice I did mention that) is because I don't feel in the right place for it mentally. When we talked before, I told you I had problems accepting concrit, and that it takes me time to come to terms with it. I am interested in writing seriously, but not yet. For now, I'm just having fun.

I've never claimed to be amazingly gifted or brilliant, though I'll take such compliments when they come my way. ;) I can take criticism, and indeed, my A Level coursework came back to me at least sixteen times before my teacher was done with it, but in this case, I find your concrit unhelpful and wish you to stop. It's not an unreasonable request, to my mind: some places have headers with the option to say you don't want concrit, etc. I don't mind concrit when I feel it helps, but all the concrit you have offered me, while technically correct and coherent, has not helped me. I'm not saying it's a failure in you, and it might well be a failure in me, but that's my concern, not yours.

(frozen comment)

[cupcakemonster.livejournal.com]

FANFIC = SRS BIZNESS

There really is a difference between a concrit being honestly written with the intention of making the writer better, and one that isn't. Your intentions are obvious, and really lame!

Implying that a writer is lazy in your concrit causes me to give you an automatic F- in feedback!

Until you're able to concrit without making personal comments, I suggest you don't concrit at all.

(frozen comment)

[feywood.livejournal.com]

I commend you for leaving such detailed feedback. I rarely manage to and when I do, it's never quite satisfactory.
I do wonder if you've ever heard about the rules of feedback. In case you haven't, the first one is: "start with something positive." No matter how harsh a critique you're about to write (and you certainly managed that), you should always start (and, as you did - flimsy as it might be - end with) something positive.

Furthermore, I think you come off as rather condescending, as you speak of what is acceptable and what is not.
Not to mention that I wonder whether you know the canon and the characters at all. The situation described here is very likely to happen. And even in real life, we often find ourselves hating and loving something/someone at the same time. I think this fiction conveys that nicely.

Lastly, I don't understand why you feel the need to comment like this when there is barely anything you like about this fic. That, combined with the way you wrote your feedback is highly demotivating and as such, not a useful or valuable feedback. It might amuse you to write it, but you are definitely the only one.

(frozen comment)

[perotine.livejournal.com]

"Start with something positive" --- I have never heard this rule. If I can't say her technique is unacceptable, then you can't say my technique is unacceptable. Really, though, it's a moot point.

The fact that the situation is likely (which it certainly could be, but I thought we never learned enough about Xu to know how she'd feel) doesn't mean there's no need to explain. If anything, the things we would accept as given should be treated with more detail in order to make the scenario worthwhile.

I don't know why you think I would do this as a joke. Mine isn't. It was simple commentary. If I feel negatively about it, shouldn't I be even more obliged to respond? Not all feedback needs to be positive. Not all feedback should be positive. That's the kind of feedback I leave and that's the kind of feedback I expect to receive in turn. You simply can't decide who is and isn't allowed to critique your work; that's both immature and insecure. It's not befitting of anyone who makes any endeavor, especially a creative one.

"Well, actually, I thought it conveyed This. Hm, I see what you mean about That. What do you mean by ThatOtherThing...I'm not sure what you're talking about? Do you mean ThisOtherThing?"

That's an appropriate response. "You're a big meany and you don't like my work, so please don't read it!!" is not. Writing is not about the writer's personalities. It's about the writing.

(frozen comment)

[feywood.livejournal.com]

Then perhaps you ought to take some lessons in giving feedback. I'm an aspiring teacher and they keep throwing this rule at me. It was part of an exam. Start and end positively.

Xu's hate or dislike for Squall is explained quite thoroughly. I think that going into detail about her love as well would take away from the story and make it less interesting.

I think you would do this as a joke because your commentary comes across as unecessarily condescending. It is, of course your right to be negative about something and you can voice this, but what's the point to be 'meaner' about it than you need to be? I think that if she considers your critique unhelpful and if it brings her down, she has every right to ask you not to comment. I know from experience that she is entirely capable of taking negative feedback and putting it to good use. The fact that your feedback only leaves her feeling negative about herself and her writing, is not a good sign and, to me, it seems the problem lies with you.

I do not see where you get the impression that her reply was an emotional one. She asked if you were the same person as last time, expressed that she'd taked your previous feedback into consideration but had found it unhelpful and asked you not to comment again. The closest to emotional she got was "I didn't feel like writing anymore" and that, frankly, is something no feedback should achieve. Your criticism is anything but constructive.

(frozen comment)

[perotine.livejournal.com]

It doesn't matter whether or not it comes off as unnecessarily condescending. It doesn't matter whether or not it's polite (which it was). It doesn't matter whether or not it was rude. You don't always get that benefit. I have been told both to only start writing again when I got a clue and to never write again for the good of all humankind. Feedback is feedback is feedback, and if you don't want some of it then you shouldn't be giving anything to critique in the first place.

Yes. Apparently a criticism I made was enough to deter her from writing. She chose to react that way, and that frankly doesn't bode well for her future. "Anything but constructive"---oh, come on. I pointed out some errors and asked her to write more. I am truly a terrible person. If being criticized even politely is enough to make her want to stop writing, then maybe she shouldn't.

(frozen comment)

[feywood.livejournal.com]

I think that if you have any respect for the author at all, the way you sound is very important, but that might be a matter of opinion. Of course you don't always get that benefit, life isn't handed out on a silver platter, but it makes us all better people when we are polite.

I repeat, she has taken negative feedback well in the past. It has motivated her. The fact that it is only yours that makes her feel this way is a sign, to me.
You did not simply point out some errors. You talked of what is acceptable and all the things she did wrong, without really ever offering alternatives.
Again, it's not just criticism. It is your criticism.

(frozen comment)

[perotine.livejournal.com]

I pointed out some errors. That's all. I suggested she vary her sentence structure and convey aspects of character rather than state them. Yes, it's my criticism, and if you or she think it was impolite in any way, then I'm very sorry for you both.

I was not cruel, unkind, "unnecessarily condescending", or impolite. I said nothing about her as a person or her writing as unfit for birdcage liner. The reason I came back to comment was because I haven't noticed any progress since I made my first comment---it's still the same cookie-cutter scenarios, with characters being essentially interchangeable from one piece to the next (not the case here, though), and the errors with syntax and structure are still there. There hasn't been improvement. That's why I felt another comment was necessary.

Now I see why there hasn't been any. I have nothing further to say because I can see it won't do any good, since my criticism apparently does not help her. But wait, she doesn't want help, because it's just for fun, right? Or something? I thought I was giving encouragement to someone who wanted to improve, but since she doesn't actually care about improving,I can see I'm wasting my time.

I am glad she has no aspirations as a professional writer, because she wouldn't make it to a first draft.

(frozen comment)

[feywood.livejournal.com]

I beg to differ. Actually, I have differed several times already, but you don't seem to be listening.

You may not have been (directly) impolite, but being as blunt as you are isn't particularly polite either. And since you do sound condescending, whether you think so or not, you were not respectful either.

Has it come to mind that perhaps your critique isn't the be all and end all of feedback and that not only might you be wrong, she also has every right to ignore your feedback?
Yes, she does this for fun, but that doesn't mean she doesn't want comments or feedback. I know she cares about improving. But again, the way you're doing it is not the right one.

And there your true self comes shining through. Congratulations. That's low.

(frozen comment)

[sugartits.livejournal.com]

I was not cruel, unkind, "unnecessarily condescending", or impolite.

I am glad she has no aspirations as a professional writer, because she wouldn't make it to a first draft.

Good job! You're an asshole.

(frozen comment)

[sugartits.livejournal.com]

Okay, a second comment because my first was a knee-jerk. I apologise for being rude.

However, I find this whole situation very fishy. You've been through this before and as far as I saw it was quite dramatic and drawn-out, and yet here you are, back again under a different name, doing the exact same thing you did last time? You and Nikki discussed it, as far as I'm aware, and she told you that your feedback is not helpful to her, as she's done again in this thread. So why are you here, doing it again and being just as rude and stubborn as ever?

She's been perfectly calm and polite to you and asked you to stop, and you haven't. I think this shows exactly where the problem lies in this situation. I'm a big fan of constructive criticism and I've left it for people who didn't accept it before, and I've learned that hounding that person, yelling that they must accept what you say, does absolutely nothing but upset them, make them unwilling to listen to you, and show you up as somebody with no manners and no respect for them as a writer.

(frozen comment)

[edenbound.livejournal.com]

I am glad she has no aspirations as a professional writer, because she wouldn't make it to a first draft.

I'm sorry you felt the need to sink to saying such a thing. :/ I had thought you slightly more mature than that.

I've been thinking it over, and discussing it with other people; it's not that I'm simply dismissing your concrit out of hand. I don't find it especially helpful and you and I do not seem to get on particularly well. I'm not sure why you've seemed to view me as a personal mission. The truth is, you always comment exactly where I feel weak -- when it comes to grammar, which I've never been taught in any way, in FFVI fandom when I was just trying to get a handle on the environment, and at times like this when, yes, I'm emotional -- exams, the death of someone important to me, etc, a time when I'm writing simply for the sake of writing and am not truly satisfied with it myself.

I do want to thank you, because despite upsetting me and being, to my mind, overly confrontational with both me and my fiancée, you have made me think about things. For example, I'm pretty well known for biting off more than I can chew, claims-wise, and I've decided to drop a lot of claims so I can just focus on writing for what I genuinely feel enthusiastic about. This isn't all your doing, it's something I've been considering for a while, but this has basically given me a push into doing it.

However, I don't want this to happen again, as whenever you've left me concrit, I've felt more discouraged than helped at all, and you honestly have come off as fairly confrontational (this is obviously subjective, maybe you don't think you have). To that end, I'm banning you from commenting on this journal, and freezing the comment threads.

[carolinegr.livejournal.com]

I do agree that the last sentence wasn't as poignant as other last sentences I've seen you write, but, hey, it's no big deal. It seems to me this person was waiting for you to write something like that so that they could tear it apart.

Anyway, don't stop writing!!! The reason I am saying this is that I love your FFVII fiction, and I would be sad if you didn't write anymore for this fandom (or at all).

I think your sentences flow well, your ideas are interesting and original, you don't hesitate to break cliches and stereotypes, and most of your last lines are killers. Your word choice is also excellent. Some phrases from your fics I still remember. (for example what you've written about Seifer's words stinging like a cut from Hyperion or something like that- for some reason, I find this sentence very memorable.) You are the best ffviii writer in my eyes, honestly.

After all, I am having my fingers crossed for another hot Squall x Seifer fic (as in Squall on top).

[edenbound.livejournal.com]

Don't worry, I don't intend to stop writing. You're not on my personal journal's list, so you wouldn't know, but I've simply decided to spend more time on my writing and drop claims and such so I'm only writing what I'm really enthusiastic about. (I've kept a Seifer/Squall claim, so... :p)

Thank you for commenting. :)